Maybe I should have used a term other than "black sheep," or expanded it to explain that I ejoyed looking into the histories of men of conscience who were the forefathers of the great crowd of apostates today. I will (of course!) enjoy reading about the Watchtower sociopaths and bullies, but the Watchtower was also a place where intelligene and conscience were often not welcome.
Nathan Natas
JoinedPosts by Nathan Natas
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Can you help?
by Old Goat ini seldom post here, though i read the posts here daily.
i spend most of my time just growing older.
(i became a witness in 1948, so you can guess my age.
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History of JWs and the doctoral thesis of "maplaza"
by Nathan Natas inthis is something that i feel rather good about and i wanted to share it with you.. about seven years ago, a young man from spain who selected the username "maplaza" posted a message asking for any help we could offer concerning the history of an early follower of "pastor" russell named m. l. mcphail.
i was one of several who offered to assist "maplaza".. see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/104735/1/information-about-m-l-mcphail.
just this morning i received an email from maplaza in which he reports that his doctoral thesis was submitted and received the highest mark.. all of maplaza's work was done in spanish, in which i am far from fluent - but if you are fluent in spanish or if you are interested in watchtower history and willing to work a bit, i think you might enjoy this.. you can download maplaza's dissertation here: http://hdl.handle.net/10261/75500.
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Nathan Natas
This is something that I feel rather good about and I wanted to share it with you.
About seven years ago, a young man from Spain who selected the username "maplaza" posted a message asking for any help we could offer concerning the history of an early follower of "Pastor" Russell named M. L. McPhail. I was one of several who offered to assist "maplaza".
See: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/104735/1/Information-about-M-L-McPhail
Just this morning I received an email from maplaza in which he reports that his doctoral thesis was submitted and received the highest mark.
All of maplaza's work was done in Spanish, in which I am far from fluent - but if you are fluent in Spanish or if you are interested in Watchtower history and willing to work a bit, I think you might enjoy this.
You can download maplaza's dissertation here: http://hdl.handle.net/10261/75500
Best of all, I think is that maplaza completed his DOCTORAL THESIS! This is an excellent and highly commendable accomplishment.
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Can you help?
by Old Goat ini seldom post here, though i read the posts here daily.
i spend most of my time just growing older.
(i became a witness in 1948, so you can guess my age.
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Nathan Natas
Hi, Old Goat, and welcome! I know there are several here who may share your interest in the story of the people behind the WTB&TS.
Personally, I am more interested in the "black sheep" of Watchtower history and the invisible women of the Watchtower, a very difficult area to research.
I have done some work looking into the history of W. E. van Amburgh, Fred Robison, Merlin Fogh and M. L. McPhail and have greatly appreciated the work others here have done looking into the affairs of Rutherford and his family and the treatment Olin Moyle received for having a conscience, among others.
I will follow your link and offer encouragement to the writers. Thanks!
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Maybeso
by MaybeSo inim very sad, upset and disappointed all at the same time.
why couldnt i just stay away from this dam forum and live my life and blindly dedicated it to the borg.
now i know ttatt, i cant ignore all the facts and all the stories of the great people in this forum.
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Nathan Natas
Each one of us here have gone through what you are going through to a greater or lesser degree, and each has handled it, some better than others.
Maybe the next issue of The WATCHTOWER, or the next book released at a district Assembly, or the next dazzling revelation of "new light", will be just what you need to hang on.
Did you laugh at that? I hope you did.
Try to keep your sense of humor as you watch the Dubs around you enthusiastically applying themselves to something that is meaningless.
The greater the title: Brother, Pioneer, MS, Elder, Circuit Servant, District Servant, Bethelite, GB member, etc., the greater the fool who wears that title.
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Is the U.S. headed toward financial ruin? Your opinions please....
by tresdecu innot trying to sound like a conpiracy nut...but just read this article:.
http://www.moneynews.com/archives/trump-aftershock-american-economy/2012/11/06/id/462985?promo_code=103fc-1.
is this just a lot of talk?
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Nathan Natas
One of the advantages of hanging around long past my "sell by" date - - There used to be a guy who posted here who was ALWAYS talking about how the global financial system was going to collapse in the fall - EACH fall. If I recall correctly, this guy was also a watchtower "true believer" and - I thought his was excellent wackiness on his part -- he was also a vigorous supporter of Lyndon LaRouche.
But I can't recall this poster's name!!!
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Why Must A God Of Love Destroy The World/NonJWs? Why Doesn't This Cause Cognitive Dissonance?
by frankiespeakin indiscuss.. god is love but yet he hates.. god don't hate bad people he hates bad acts and yet he takes out his hate on people and not the acts.. god loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son as payment to some mysterious debt collector so the world would live on and then he back tracks on the deal and decides they need extermination after all, except for a worthy few who put faith in the watchtower corporation.. i remember an article by the wt years ago that dealt with the topic why a god of love is going to destroy the world any quotes from it would be helpful..
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Nathan Natas
" If he did it once he will do it again, why wouldnt he?"
He didn't do it the first time - that's a fairy tale - and he won't be doing it again either. Stop dreaming.
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Why Must A God Of Love Destroy The World/NonJWs? Why Doesn't This Cause Cognitive Dissonance?
by frankiespeakin indiscuss.. god is love but yet he hates.. god don't hate bad people he hates bad acts and yet he takes out his hate on people and not the acts.. god loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son as payment to some mysterious debt collector so the world would live on and then he back tracks on the deal and decides they need extermination after all, except for a worthy few who put faith in the watchtower corporation.. i remember an article by the wt years ago that dealt with the topic why a god of love is going to destroy the world any quotes from it would be helpful..
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Nathan Natas
Cognitive dissonance is not caused by believing something that is stupid; it is caused by THINKING about what we believe and how one idea relates to another.
here's something I cut n' pasted just for this discussion:
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What Is Cognitive Dissonance?
By Kendra Cherry, About.com Guide
Question: What Is Cognitive Dissonance?
Answer: People tend to seek consistency in their beliefs and perceptions. So what happens when one of our beliefs conflicts with another previously held belief? The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the feeling of discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs. When there is a discrepancy between beliefs and behaviors, something must change in order to eliminate or reduce the dissonance.
Examples of Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance can occur in many areas of life, but it is particularly evident in situations where an individual's behavior conflicts with beliefs that are integral to his or her self-identity. For example, consider a situation in which a woman who values financial security is in a relationship with a man who is financially irresponsible.
The conflict:
* It is important for her to be financially secure.
* She is dating a man who is financially unstable.
In order to reduce this dissonance between belief and behavior, she can either leave the relationship or reduce her emphasis on financial security. In the case of the second option, dissonance could be further minimized by emphasizing the positive qualities of her significant other rather than focusing on his perceived flaws.
A more common example of cognitive dissonance occurs in the purchasing decisions we make on a regular basis. Most people want to hold the belief that they make good choices. When a product or item we purchase turns out badly, it conflicts with our previously existing belief about our decision-making abilities.
How to Reduce Cognitive Dissonance
There are three key strategies to reduce or minimize cognitive dissonance:
* Focus on more supportive beliefs that outweigh the dissonant belief or behavior.
* Reduce the importance of the conflicting belief.
* Change the conflicting belief so that it is consistent with other beliefs or behaviors.
Why is Cognitive Dissonance Important?
Cognitive dissonance plays a role in many value judgments, decisions and evaluations. Becoming aware of how conflicting beliefs impact the decision-making process is a great way to improve your ability to make faster and more accurate choices.
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A person will NEVER experience cognitive dissonance if they never think about the things they believe.
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Charles Ramsey - a hero, a man of ACTION!
by Nathan Natas ingood on ya, chuck!.
see: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/us/ohio-cleveland-ramsey/index.html.
listen: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50146346n.
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Nathan Natas
Good on ya, Chuck!
See: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/us/ohio-cleveland-ramsey/index.html
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The Third Korea
by fulltimestudent innot many people are aware that there is a third korea, in addition to what we call south korea and north korea.. only oceans form effective borders, other-wise ethnic groups straddle borders.
and, along the yalu river, which forms much of the border between north korea and china, we find on the chinese side of the river, a large korean population in china's dong-bei (the north-east).
this area is shown in red,on the map below.. .
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Nathan Natas
I would imagine that the Korean Communists living in Yanbian are not starving the way hir cousins in North Korea are.
How do they feel about the "Revolutionary Triumph" of North Korea?
How do you say "congnitive dissonance" in Korean?
Nice work, fulltimestudent!
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Where to bury the heroic Tamerlan Tsarnaev
by Nathan Natas ini suggest he should be cremated and his cremains sprinkled over a pig farm, or better yet, several pig farms.. .
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Nathan Natas
Berengaria, I am every bit as outraged and incensed as you are over inadequate corporate due diligence which results in the deaths of employees and civilians. But based on your comments I feel that mabe I am a bit more concerned over the activities of fanatic Muslim jihadis than you are.
If I may, you asked villagegirl, "Why would [Tamerlan Tsarnaev's burial site] be an object of worship and veneration?
Because fanatic Muslim jihadis revere those who die in jihad and turn their graves into shrines.
Then you asked villagegirl which Muslims she has had it with.
I can't speak for villagegirl, but I can speak for myself:
ALL OF THEM, immigrant or domestic convert. They should ALL be expelled from the USA, because they are ALL dedicated to replacing America with a Muslim sharia theocracy.